Interview with Doris Barrilleaux – The First Lady of Bodybuilding (Part 3/3)

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With this 3rd part, we conclude our thorough interview with women’s bodybuilding legend and pioneer, Doris Barrilleaux (Part1 here, Part 2 here).

Here, Doris tells us her opinion of the status of modern female bodybuilding and its different “flavors” (fitness, figure, bikini, physique, bodybuilding) and the never-ending controversy on which way should female bodybuilding be headed to, more muscular or more aesthetic, while informing us about the baby steps taken toward that direction as early as from the very beginning of female bodybuilding contests. An important part of this interview is covered by her experiences as a physique photographer; she shares with us some memorable moments during that aspect of her career. Finally, some words about fitness and aging, on her legacy to the sport as well as some advice directed towards the younger generation of bodybuilders, especially women. Once again, the last part of this interview is accompanied by a large selection of rare and historically important photographic material, a real delight to the eyes of the bodybuilding enthusiast. Much more of such material can be found on her DVD “And-I-Did!”, Vol. 1, that is presented in more detail toward the end of this interview.

On the evolution of female bodybuilding

GRF: You had a very strong and clear vision on how you had imagined female bodybuilding to become. You wanted women to be able to rule what was best for themselves, you thought that we should have two classes, one for the more muscular women, and one for the less muscular, you emphasized on the feminine side and on the art form of the sport. Those exact reasons that made you a pioneer in the sport in the first place, those very reasons were probably the ones that little-by-little had you marginalized from the official IFBB circles and the very sport you had created only a few years later. Later though, (and more than once) the IFBB had issued directives for women bodybuilders to reduce their mass. We also now have five classes (bodybuilding, physique, fitness, figure, and bikini) instead of one or two. How do you feel first of all on how the sport has evolved and which class or classes do you like most? And, do you feel vindicated after 30+ years?

DJB: I saw from the very beginning that there would be a need for two classes.  This was before the number of competitors required dividing into weight classes. While at my age of 46 and a grandmother, my own preference was the sculptured, but athletic form such as Deborah Diana, Carla Dunlap etc. However, there were women who wanted to take their development much further. So, I attempted to conduct an experiment at one of the Miami, FL contests about 1980. I convinced promoter, John Mese (now deceased) to have a Bodybuilding and a Body Sculpting Class so I could determine how many women would chose to enter one of these classes. Unfortunately, my other duties required me to be out of the country that weekend. When I returned, I was so disappointed that John had allowed crossovers, totally defeating my purpose.  Of course it gave him more entry fees.

As the competitors grew, so did the classes. We had an Over 35 as did the men. I won that class in the 1980 Ms. Gold Coast.

Then came the Fitness where the women could display their Physical Fitness via gymnastics, dance or any medium they chose. This added a bit of spice to the simple flexed posing. Soon it was necessary to divide into Lightweight, Middleweight and Heavyweight. Some were concerned the women would not want to be call Heavy Weight but that was not the case. When the Figure came these were categorized by Height Classes. In 2011, when I was inducted into the National Fitness Hall of Fame at the Arnold Event in Columbus, OH, I was surprised that the men running the sport had added a Bikini Class for anyone off the beach. Not long after this, I learned there had been added a 5th Category “Physique”. If you check out the evolution of women’s bodybuilding you will find that our first SPA contests in 1979 were called, Ms. Brandon Physique, Ms. Tampa Physique and Ms. Florida Physique. What took them so long?

For some time I felt that if you covered the head and could not tell whether the figure was a man or a woman, it had gone too far.  After a major competition, I colored the bra on the Heavy Weight woman winner and placed her between the Bantam and Light Weight male winners.  This was published in several magazines “What’s Wrong With This Picture”, and hardly a soul noticed.

When Mr. Olympia Frank Zane told me the world wasn’t ready for women bodybuilders in 1978, apparently we had a very different vision in mind. And when Laura Combes (deceased 1989) the winner of Ms. Tampa Physique and I were on the Real People TV show that gave us National recognition in ‘79 she stated, “If people think I’m muscular just wait till you see the women in the future!”

GRF: Indeed, three-time Mr. Olympia Frank Zane once famously told you in 1978, “Doris, the world is just not ready yet for female bodybuilders“. In your opinion, was the world ever ready? Or is there going to be a controversy about that forever?

DJB: I don’t know there was a time table to introduce female bodybuilders.  There were famous strong women in the 1800’s like Minerva, Vulcana, and Katie Sandwina (1884-1952; P.T. Barnum claimed her to be the perfect female specimen, nearly 5’10” at 210 lbs.). And at the time there were strong women performing in circuses, vaudeville and music halls.

Then in the 1940’s Pudgy Stockton’s (1917-2006: 5’2 at 115 lbs) strength feats on Muscle Beach in California were featured in the magazines I read. Maybe I just happened to come along at the right time to introduce female bodybuilders. I was well aware of the benefits of weight training for women from personal experience in 1956. Since early childhood, I was infatuated with the various actors who played Tarzan.  Then came the Hercules actors. The magazines I used to learn about weight training showed such beautiful physical specimens as John Grimek, Steve Reeves, and Frank Zane.

Then by the chance meeting with physique photographer, Dick Falcon in 1976, I took up the hobby of photographing the men’s bodybuilding competitions.  There were women working out along side the men in gyms. They were asked to present trophy, but they received no recognition for their accomplishments.  Why not?  I wasn’t the only one who felt this way.  There were women in California like, Lisa Lyon, Kay Baxter, Claudia Wilborn, and Shelly Gruwell. And at the YMCA in Canton, OH, Henry McGee, was training females for competition.

I attribute my determination to rectify this situation after the challenge I felt with Frank Zane’s comment. “Doris, the world’s not ready for women bodybuilders.” I felt that the time had come, and was determined to see that it did.  My vision and Frank’s must have been quite different. I wasn’t even aware of steroid enhancement at the time. I thought the women would develop the lines of a strong and shapely athlete. Never did I consider the controversy that arose at our very first SPA 1979 Ms Brandon Physique in Brandon, FL.  Rugby player, Laura Combes, refused to disrobe until we entered the stage. Competitors and judges alike were astounded at her muscular development. One male judge placed her 1st where she actually was place 4th by the 3 male and 4 female judges. Another male judge admitted it was difficult to be objective because of his physical attraction to one contestant. It was soon after that I tried my best to offer two different contests Bodybuilder and Body Sculptor, but I was unable to get any support at the time.  In order to rectify this situation, various classes were established over the past 30 years, Bodybuilder, Fitness, Figure, Bikini and finally once again Physique.  I suppose it’s up to the competitor to choose where she belongs.

On photographer career

GRF: You were a very successful physique photographer for a number of years and the material you must have collected should be enormous. How many years were you active as a photographer, and do you have an estimate about the number of times you have pressed that camera button? Or maybe an estimate on how many bodybuilders you have photographed over the years?

DJB: I began photographing the men’s competitions in 1977 and stopped in 2004, but not by choice. I expected to continue until at least age 80, but due to the introduction of the digital camera I reluctantly retired at 73.

Now, I shoot only digital. The same as with an estimate of the length of my multimedia autobiography AND I DID!, this is not a simple feat. It took me two weeks to time the DVD at 46 hours (not the normal 3.5hr disc limit). I have 21 large file cabinet drawers containing folders of each contest with black and white proof sheets and negatives. Some years I covered as many as 35 contests. The amount of 35mm rolls of 36 depended on the number of contestants. The larger National shows had over 200 competitors. This is not counting color film and bookcases filled with slides. At the 1994 Miss Galaxy I shot over 2,000 slides alone.

I often shot with two cameras, one with black & white film, the other either color or slide film.  And when taking photos for covers, I used the third a large 2 1/4″ format camera.  To this day, with the simplicity and convenience of digital, I use two of those. I take photos of everything else besides bodybuilders. Just can’t help myself, guess photography is in my blood.

GRF: Could you share with us a memorable photoshoot, where it took place and with whom?

DJB: There were so many beautiful people and places, it’s difficult to pick only one from the hundreds I’ve shot over a 30+ year period.

1. 1983: In Oslo, Norway, with Georgia Fudge, Deborah Diana, and Carla Dunlap, the sun was already dipping at 3 pm. I convinced the three women to wear their posing suits in a snow covered park assured that I’d get them on a magazine cover.  It was so cold my flash batteries froze and so did we.
   
2. 1983: Osaka, Japan with, Cathy Chang, and Japan’s Mr. Hercules, Shigru Sugita, in front of an ancient castle.
   
3. 1984: Russ Testo and Penny Price.  They were having so much fun that when I ran out of film, they asked me to get more from the hotel as they didn’t want to stop the session.
   
4. 1986: In all my years there was only one that proved a bit difficult. A magazine editor assigned me to shoot a couple from Europe for his cover. I’d photographed the man before. This time he refused to move or flex without any explanation. The woman posed around him and we still made the cover.
5. 1993: In West Palm Beach, Florida.  My group with, Debbie Kruck and Roger Stewart,  nearly got arrested posing for pictures in public. We had no idea it was against the law there. Never encountered that before or since.

With one sentence

GRF: Please just one sentence to describe or comment on the following people: John Grimek, Rachel McLish, Laura Combes, Kay Baxter, Carla Dunlap, Georgia Fudge, Kike Elomaa, Cory Everson, Lenda Murray, Deborah Diana, Lee Haney, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Joe Weider, Ben Weider, Oscar State.

DJB:

John Grimek: The perfect specimen of the male physique.
Rachel McLish: A good choice for our first Miss Olympia.
Laura Combes: A bodybuilder ahead of her time.
Kay Baxter: Kay was a good friend, quite muscular for that era who was killed in an auto accident in 1988.
Carla Dunlap: An all round athlete and very articulate.
Georgia Fudge: The first pro in Florida and always in shape.
Kike Elomaa: A worthy Miss Olympia from Finland.
Cory Everson: An athlete before becoming six-time Miss Olympia.
Lenda Murray: We both were inducted to the National Fitness Hall of fame in 2011. I was surprised after the ceremony when she kissed me on the cheek and simply said, “Thank you Doris“.
Deborah Diana: My own choice as the perfect female athlete’s physique.
Lee Haney: A real sweetheart, and eight-time Mr. Olympia
Arnold Schwarzenegger: An icon in bodybuilding and around the world.
Joe Weider: The bodybuilding mogul of the world.
Ben Weider: Head of the IFBB and a Napoleon historian.
Oscar State: Dedicated to many sports and the backbone of the IFBB.

On growing young

GRF: As the years are passing by, one becomes more philosophical about things and puts them in perspective. Currently, you are not only an octogenarian, but a very busy one too. How much do you think that exercising has contributed not only to your longevity, but also to the quality of your life and overall health?

DJB: I fully believe that my dedication to staying physically active plus good genetics makes me who I am today. In a recent TV interview I stated that I thought they made a mistake on my birth certificate. I certainly don’t feel that I’ll be 82 this August 11th. Maybe I’m just too hardheaded to accept this fact. I still feel that I’m the same age as most of my friends – mid sixties. Perhaps having always been surrounded with younger people contributes to this feeling as well.

I don’t claim to be exactly the same, but I take no medications, bike daily and swim in the summer. I also believe that my passion for learning new things helps the brain just as exercise does the body. I always do everything myself that I can. I keep my large yard and pool and paint my house inside and out. I see many seniors younger than I that don’t even use a computer. I decided to make my autobiography something more than just pages of text and a few pages of photos as most that I’ve seen. The more I learned to do, the more I wanted to know. I had to learn many different programs including how to transfer old video tapes to disc and then edit them in the computer. I’ve used Photoshop since about 1994 and love working with photos.

When I see young bodybuilders doing things that can damage their bodies and health, I try very hard to impress on them that the long term benefits of taking care of their bodies will pay off in the long run.  Some of my trophies have fallen apart by now, but I hope and pray that I have another 20 years left.  There is still so much I want and need to do.

GRF: What are the supplements you are still using?

DJB: As I’ve aged, I don’t eat nearly as much as I did. And living alone for 28 years I don’t cook as much either. Therefore, on my own I take a handful of vitamins every day. Maybe it’s overkill, but so far it feels the right thing to do. I take Fish Oil, Calcium, Vitamin B&C, Potassium, Multi-Vitamin, Vitamin E, Glucosamine & Chondroitin, Ginkgo Biloba and low-dose Aspirin. One thing to remember is that each body is different, and what works for one might not work another.

On the “And I Did!” DVD

GRF: Tell us a bit more about your DVD “And I Did!“. What does it contain, and how long did it take you to prepare it? How can people buy it and will there be a “And I Did!, vol. 2“?

DJB: For years many people told me that I should write my autobiography as I’ve led such an interesting life.  I kept saying, “I’m too busy living it to stop and write about it.”. Finally, in 2006 I realized that at age, 75, I was the oldest living person in my immediate family. If I didn’t write the history, who would?  This took exactly the next five years,  Dec. 2006 – Dec. 2011 to complete it.  It began strictly for the immediate family. I now have 14 grandchildren and 9  great-grandchildren. Then those from the bodybuilding community began asking when it would be finished. At that point, I had a single 43-page chapter about my bodybuilding involvement. I then began writing about the beginning of women’s bodybuilding and all the adventures I experienced, and the people I met over the next 30+ years. I also had many videos of TV programs and interviews. I wanted to include those as well. I just kept writing until the DVD disc was full. Little did I know that I created something very unique.

It happened that what I did allowed me to get 46 hours of materials instead of the usual 3.5 hours on a normal DVD.  John Balik, Editor of IronMan magazine told me, “This has to be a record, I’ve never seen anything like it.”  Even my two computer gurus who taught me some of the programs couldn’t believe it. As the old saying goes, “It’s not your grandfather’s Oldsmobile”. By the time I was ready to burn the DVD it contained 159 chapters with thousands of photos, 63 videos and many published newspaper and magazine articles. I realized that I should separate my personal life from the bodybuilding years so it is divided into two sections: Personal and Bodybuilding. The price of this “autographed encyclopedia” is $45.00 US.

There is no shipping charge within the USA.  For anyone interested, I can be reached at [email protected]

At the present time, I’m working to complete Vol II.  This will contain all the materials I’ve published and were published about me.  It will also contain all my Facebook Post and Photos in a different format much easier to view. And if there remains room, it could possibly contain this interview as well.

On legacy and being an inspiration to the young

GRF: Times are now much different than when you started lifting weights on your own. Do you have any advice for young girls who are now starting (or thinking of starting) with exercise and fitness, etc?

DJB: While basic exercises with free weights are still used, Nautilus and all sorts of new machines have popped up over the years.

Now there are personal trainers everywhere (Two of my grandsons and a granddaughter are certified personal trainers). I’m afraid I haven’t kept up with all the new techniques like:

• TRX – High Intensity Interval Training.
• ZUMBA – Various dance moves
• BOSU – With half ball and the original
• EXERCISE BALL

I’ve always worked out at home. I bike daily, and swim during the summer. I keep a few dumbbells under the sofa and still do floor exercises during the little time I watch television.

I would hope that many young girls today now are into some kind of sports. There is no longer a stigma about women entering men’s gyms as in the early days. Today there are even female boxers, wrestlers, and race car drivers.  I’m so glad that there has been a shift in male and female roles. One example: male flight attendants and female pilots.

Competition is fun and exciting, but I have always warned both males and females that a few broken trophies 25 years later is not worth foolishly damaging their health. For anyone who visits a Nursing Home, it should make them thank the Lord if they have made the right choices concerning their health. I know how thankful I am, and hope to accomplish much more in my lifetime.

GRF: Which are some of the best compliments that you’ve heard from people of the bodybuilding scene?

DJB: After the first Miss Olympia in 1980, Arnold stuck his finger into the cutouts down the side of my yellow evening gown and said, “You gotta be da sexiest grandmutter in da world!” When presenting the 2011 Award for National Fitness Hall of Fame he said, “You deserve it“!

During intermission at a contest in Miami, FL a young African-American approached and asked if I was Doris Barrilleaux. I said Yes. He said, “Do you mind if I give you a hug, I never hugged a legend before.“

A guest poser at a local contest came up to a group of my grandchildren (2 grandsons and a granddaughter had also guest posed and 5 other grandsons sat on front row “test judging”)  He said, “Do you all know that your grandmother is a legend?“

GRF: If you don’t mind me asking, how large has your family become?

DJB: At the moment I have 14 grand and 9 great-grandkids. These are from 2 of my 5 children, my eldest, Vicki, and youngest, Don, (2 sons deceased and daughter with none). And if eldest Brandy had started her family young as we did, I could easily be a great-great grandma. The starred ones are the great-grandkids. Brandy Lynn (1967), Victor Anthony (1971), Anna Leigh (1972), Shilo Eleana (1973), Brandon William (1977), Kelli Rebecca (1979), Michael Dallas (1980), Sterling John (1982), Megan Darlene (1985), Evan Dean (1987), Julian Page (1989), Kyle Ray (1990), Travis Dean (1991), *Dillon Scott (1992), *Hunter Blaine (1993), *Jared Daniel (1998), Hailey Marie (1999), *Kenneth William (2000), *Dalton James (2001), *Madison Paige (2004), *Isaiah William? (2007), *Harrison Dean 10mo (2012), *Todd Burton (2012).

DJB: I never set out to be famous nor a part of history, I discovered the benefits of working out for women as well as men, and spent the last 50+ years of my life pursuing this goal. Later I wanted to show how it had benefited me, and encourage females young and old to follow the lead to be strong, healthy, and independent. I’ve often been told how, at my age, I inspired some of the younger women, and that they look up to me for my strength, determination and independence.  I’ve been given many different names: Wonder Woman, Godmother, Queen, etc.  But the one that has stuck over these last 35 years is “The First Lady of Bodybuilding”. When eight-time Mr. Olympia, Lee Haney, presented me a copy of his book “Beyond the Pump” in 2011 and it was autographed: “To Our First Lady of Bodybuilding” I finally felt this put the seal on it once and for all.

GRF: Dear Ms. Barrileaux, it has been an honor and a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you so much. A final word for the members and friends of our Greek bodybuilding and Fitness website and forum, XBody.gr?

DJB: Thank you for providing the English translation to enjoy all the materials that are covered in XBody.gr. I will share the site with all my friends around the world. It certainly contains a wide variety to satisfy any and all interests and tastes. I am honored that you chose me for the wonderful 3-part interview. I can honestly say that of all my articles, videos, and interviews in the last 30+ years this thorough piece was the best, and my favorite of all time. I am proud to include it with all the others on Vol II of my interactive multimedia autobiography DVD Andidid.com.

“And I Did!“ is a multimedia presentation on the life of Doris Barrilleaux, and how she founded and spearheaded the growth and acceptance of women’s bodybuilding in a DVD based eBook like no other. A multimedia autobiography, comprising 159 chapters and 63 video clips. Length approximately 46 hours of reading and viewing. Includes published magazine articles and newspaper clippings as additional reading. The price of this “autographed encyclopedia” is $45.00 US. There is no shipping charge within the USA. Contact Doris Barrilleaux for information at [email protected].